Curse

Puebert · Jan 22, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by I pwnd U

Wrong, she cannot legally go through a students backpack without any reason other then getting the students notes. It is their personal property and the teacher cannot just go through their personal stuff.

On another note, this is the same Toxage that has said they are in the working world and it takes them like 40 minutes to get to work... Interesting that we are now back in high school. oO

High schoolers can't have jobs/cars?

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jan 22, 2009, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Sue for like $500 the school will most likely want to just settle out side of court.

I pwnd U · Jan 22, 2009, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

High schoolers can't have jobs/cars?

/facepalm

If you saw the post you would understand. They were going on about how they made like 40k a year and stuff like that. Other posts made by the same person have made it sound as though they were much older then high school.

JupiterStarWarrior · Jan 22, 2009, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

It may have been "wrong" but legalities are often ignored or justified in HS, pwnd.

QFT.

I remember in high school that someone had stated that we [the high school students] actually didn't have any rights.

Which is not right, not fair, and totally unconstitutional.

I pwnd U · Jan 22, 2009, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Actually you do have rights but feel so suppressed by the administration that many high schoolers do not practice their rights.

MisterB · Jan 22, 2009, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Should have sat on the backpack so she'd be forced to lay hands on you in an attempt to violate your personal property. Then you could claim self defense and- Nah. I'd have refused that request. Not legal. She violated your personal property, stole it, and then destroyed it. That teacher should be fired.

Snow Bunny · Jan 22, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

technically no, figuratively yes.

She is allowed to make that policy. If you don't comply with that policy, and wish to remain in the class, not failing, then you have to allow her to.

Your rights as a high-schooler are limited severely. Attendance at a school is contractual, thus you have to abide by their rules.

Give us a play-by-play. If you refused to hand over your 'intellectual property', she could've just failed you instantly.

Ignore all this if you're a student at a private school. In that case, don't even try and argue - under private school contracts, you're legally a "guest", which means you're even more RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed.

Yang Whirlwind · Jan 22, 2009, 11:29 AM // 11:29

I remember having my backpack searched without permission in school once,- they suspected I was selling illegal fireworks on the school grounds (fire crackers are not allowed in Denmark).
That is a clear case of "probable cause" - your notes on the other hand are your property unless the school has specified a rule saying otherwise.

For the record:
I would never had been stupid enough to keep the fireworks in my own backpack

zwei2stein · Jan 22, 2009, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Regardless of whether it is legal or not you, and your parents, should consider this:

* Cheaters won't be stopped. At all. Cell phones with cameras, scanners, photocopy machine, making copy by hand. Turning over notes does not help when making copy is so damned easy.
* She is hindering your education - if are not allowed to keep notes, you can't review them later (later can be couple of years after class) when you actually need to, for example when you are preparing for entrance exams to university, making her classes useless for you.

It adds up to making useless attempts to solve cheating that hurts students that want to learn because you are lazy.
If it happened over here, parents would demand her fired - and she would get fired. I saw something similar happen back when I was at high school.

Shasgaliel · Jan 22, 2009, 01:07 PM // 13:07

It is like during good old Communist times.....

glacialphoenix · Jan 22, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

...regardless of whether that is legal, that is utterly ridiculous. What if you wanted to keep those notes for your own use?

Also, she is extremely naive if she thinks destroying your work for the semester will prevent students from cheating. Future students have other future students to cheat from: there was a spate of notes-thefts in one of my schools near finals. (Which was probably also intended to prevent the victim from studying his/her notes.) Maybe it kills one avenue - I actually did see someone in my university who wanted to buy 'notes, complete with all tutorial answers' - but there are dozens of other methods by which students can cheat. --;

EmptySkull · Jan 22, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Hope this will help:

http://www.legalzoom.com/legal-artic...icle14019.html

Quote:

We've all seen enough crime shows to know what to do if the police knock on your door and demand to search your property: stand, look indignant and demand to see their warrant. After all, it's your property, and unless you give permission or a judge orders the search, you should have control over what you have, right?
Yes – provided you're not a student. If you're in a school environment, teachers and administrators can search without either permission or a warrant. Even so, students still have rights, and knowing which searches are illegal might just save your child some time in front of the school board.

Quote:

The Supreme Court early on decided that need by teachers and administrators to maintain order outweighs the privacy interests of students in a case called New Jersey v. TLO. But that does not mean that school officials can just search anybody at any time. School searches are only justified according to the Supreme Court "when there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that the search will turn up evidence that the student has violated or is violating either the law or the rules of school."

(bold,underlined,italics for emphasis)

I'm sure the teacher can claim he/she suspected that rules where being broken by going in your backpack.
Would the teacher's rule of turning in notes be considered enough to satisfy the above caveat about searching personal property?
That is what would have to be determined if a civil right has been violated or not.

I would also recommend reading a copy of your schools policies and procedures given out to students. These things are usually signed by the parent or student or both. But not required to be signed. It may give the school the right to search your belongings with the caveat:

Quote:

"when there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that the search will turn up evidence that the student has violated or is violating either the law or the rules of school."

Google search: can a teacher search your backpack

Enon · Jan 22, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

The so called 'rule' is ridiculous to begin with...

If I were you, I would discuss this with the Head of School and, depending on his/her reaction, I would take further steps. Also, groups make a bigger impression than one student, so if you are indeed taking further steps, make sure your class is behind you.

By the way, did she searched multiple backpacks or just yours?

Yang Whirlwind · Jan 22, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

If you want to bring this issue further, I suggest this:

Ask the head of the school if confiscation of your personal notes are condoned/ordered by him.
If yes: take this to the school board and ask them if they think this is acceptable.

If either party says no: have him/her/them order your teacher to stop immediately and return the confiscated materials.

If it is condoned by both the head of the school and the school board, you are probably out of luck. Unless you want to bring it up to political level.

*Darcy* · Jan 22, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I would like to point out that school rules change from school district to school district even within the same state.

You need to find out what the rules are pertaining to this action in YOUR school district.

Ghengis Kwell · Jan 22, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

if you have tons of cash sue the hell out of her lol << war mongering and joking.

I do not think anyone has the right to search anyone else backpack without their permission, not anywhere in the world. If anyone does its either a communist country or extremely corrupted airport custom officer.

my opinion of teacher: can't find better occupation. they are scum scum i tell you.

Wow...possibly the dumbest post I have ever read on Guru...well done .

Painbringer · Jan 22, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Go to the principle and lodge a complaint I am sure it will end the situation. If that does not work local media will put an end to the nonsense.

Times are tough maybe she needs toilet paper or something. Economics is such a important topic it should be protected like the KFC recipe

A11Eur0 · Jan 22, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

She is allowed to make that policy. If you don't comply with that policy, and wish to remain in the class, not failing, then you have to allow her to.

Your rights as a high-schooler are limited severely. Attendance at a school is contractual, thus you have to abide by their rules.

Give us a play-by-play. If you refused to hand over your 'intellectual property', she could've just failed you instantly.

Also a load of horseshit. if I were a teacher and made the policy that all students had to give me their lunch money to get a passing grade for the day, would I be protected legally because I made the policy? No. It's theft, the same as going into a student's personal bookbag and taking their notes. Again: take it up with your parents. The teacher cannot take your notes, the teacher cannot fail you for not turning over your notes. Period. End of story. This whole "students have no rights" line is a load of crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

I would like to point out that school rules change from school district to school district even within the same state.

You need to find out what the rules are pertaining to this action in YOUR school district.

School district policy/rules are overridden by local and state law. Theft is a local crime. If the school is state-funded, then it's a state crime.

AshenX · Jan 22, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Just to confirm..did she actually take your whole notebook ? or just remove the notes from them ? Honetly not a huge difference but if she took the notebook, something that students (parents) provide for themselves in most public schools, then she has not just illegally searched and seized but has actually stolen.

Next question: did you have anything of personal value in your binder. I am not suggesting that you lie and say that you had something with serious monetary value in your binder but you did not describe your teacher making any effort to ensure that he was not taking items of value mixed in with the binder. Even personal artwork (created during free time of course) qualifies as intellectual property whether you have taken the time to copywright it or not. Poems or songs that you have written or pictures you have drawn could be major points of contention in a complaint filed against your teacher.

Definately file the complaint.

Black Metal · Jan 22, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

to the OP: honestly I'm shocked by this, and slightly outraged. The second page here has some better advice than the first, and I do believe you have a very good case. I'm no lawyer and can't speculate as to the specific legalities, but it isn't illegal things that are being searched and confiscated on school property (drugs, alcohol, weapons), it's class notes -- what you are expected to have. This is what you take with you, your records of learning, that which you may need in further education down the road. I kept all my notes, textbooks, etc (from college), and I do very much refer to those. If those were taken involuntarily from me, that would have diminished my education.

Back on topic: the advice that you go to the school's administration and explain this, then demand to know if they condone it is very good advice. I would also not give up a single piece of paper to this teacher. Go to the PTA (for non-Americans, that's the Parent-Teacher's Association, every school has it). As said above, try to get other students in the same situation on board. You could notify your local newspaper -- they love to cover these types of underdog scenarios. I honestly think that if you applied a little heat, you could get an official apology, compensation, and the teacher would be disciplined.

As for the people saying that you have no or reduced legal rights in school, that searches and seizures are fine, this may be the cause for delinquents, students carrying contraband, or for probably cause or students who are under suspicion. These measures are NOT for students in good standing, and not to take class notes. That is an outrage.

I wish you luck and would like to see how this goes.